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Post  Craig_Lee_Heath on Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:48 pm

Hi All

In partnership with my brother-in-law I purchased from eBay last week a Francis Barnett 'barn find'. It had no paperwork but a surviving rear number plate WHK 152. It's in a pretty sorry state but just the sort of challenge we are looking for.

The engine number is 070B 66021 which I believe makes it a 197cc 8e Villiers and where paint exists appears to be Arden Green. I therefore assumed it to be a later Model 74 Falcon. Unfortunately we only have a partial frame number, the letters are missing, rusted or rubbed away, but we have the number 72126. I am sure that on an earlier post I saw that Model 74 Falcons started with frame numbers beginning with 77 so I wonder if anyone can confirm what we have.

Many Thanks

Nigel


Last edited by Craig_Lee_Heath on Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:52 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Incorrect Reg Given)

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Post  fulmar88 on Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:14 am

Your registration (WHK) was first made available in Essex in May 1953 and ended in Sept 53.

As there are no factory records over the years I have made a note of frame and engine numbers of bikes that come up for sale or from old logbooks I see on ebay. Strangely I have your engine number in my list but it is linked with a Falcon 74 frame, no. WM78850. So, it would seem that your engine started life in another bike. The earliest 74 I have listed is 76739 but this is only a guide as I don't have a large selection (and I didn't make a note of the source of this info). It would suggest though that 72126 pre dates the model 74 and the registration issue date is too early for a 74. The only Falcon 67 I have in my list is UUM 70029 registered in April '54 with engine 387A18831 (info from old buff logbook).

Steve.


Last edited by fulmar88 on Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:39 am; edited 3 times in total
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Post  piston 197 on Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:36 am

The green falcon 74 began in September 1955 ( 1956 year model ) at Frame no WM76659, the first Green Falcon, and continued to YM 84110 when it ended in August 1957
Your frame No 72126 ( if read correctly) would make it a Falcon 67 from 1954, a completely different bike which would have been black and have a 387A engine No prefix and have a frame serial No pre-fixed UUM

If you google some pictures of a Falcon 67 and a falcon 74 you will see they are a very different frame and you will be able to tell if it is a 67, or if it is a 74 and you have read the frame number wrongly
JH
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Post  John Wakefield on Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:33 pm

I note that WHK 152 is not showing on DVLA, however Essex Record Office have comprehensive registration records usually showing both the Reg No and frame number, so should be able to supply an authenticated copy to recover the number. Contact for Essex Record Office at Chelmsford is shown on  http://www.essexrecordoffice.co.uk/contact-us/

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Post  Craig_Lee_Heath on Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:24 pm

Hello All, thanks for your help.
As advised I have reviewed some photos of a Model 67 and can say that I am confident that the bike we have is not a 67 and almost certainly a Model 74 Falcon. Would the casting number on the frame give any clarity? It is 6534C.

With regard to the frame number I have taken a photo and it has been reviewed by 3 pairs of eyes and we all have 72126 as the number.

In the meantime I will contact Essex Records Office re the registration number to see if they can add anything further.

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Post  piston 197 on Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:30 pm

If your bike is definitely a Falcon 74 ( 18 inch wheels and an 3/4" acorn nut at top of steering stem) as opposed to a Falcon 70 ( 19inch wheels and 2" diameter castle nut at top of steering stem) then the frame No is dubious ?72716 would be correct for a Falcon 67, it should be pre-fixed by the letters UUM, it came in two colour options Black and Azure blue, if it was a Blue one it would have a "B" after the frame No, so safe to assume it was originally Black
The 070B engine code is correct for a FB, but not the 67 the 070B engine was a 8E/3 fitted to the Falcon 70  ( 1955) and the falcon 74 ( 1956/7), but other than the numbering sequence is the right type of engine for a Falcon 67.
If the Essex records office have records showing the registration AND the frame No. i as the FBOC dating officer can possibly assist in the retrieval of the registration number on the DVLA's V765 scheme, but i would not be surprised if the frame No on their records is the same as on the bike, but as the registration was issued in 1953, then someone will have altered it as the Falcon 74 was not available until a couple of years after the registration was issued ( July 1955)
JH
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Post  Craig_Lee_Heath on Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:08 pm

Thanks JH

Can you advise if the raised number (casting number) on the frame would be different for the Model 67 and Model 74 Falcon and could this be used to identify the frame model.

Thanks

Nigel

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Post  piston 197 on Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:00 am

Not difficult to tell a 75 frame from a 74
The 67 has a single rail under the engine of continuous tube
The 74 has 2 bolt up rails under the engine bolted together at the bottom of the downtube
JH
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Post  Jack Clegg on Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:52 am

If it is missing the two letter code prefix, then it is never going to match Essex Reg. Records. So together with the report of the engine being in another frame at some point & the frame number being spurious, it would appear to have been restamped. I would say post the photo here, but that would now just be "evidence for the prosecution." Your best bet to claim the original reg. is to let everyone forget you asked, get the original number from Essex Records, then restamp the correct number. Personally, I would not risk it & just get an age related plate in due course, but first select a valid Model 74 frame number & restamp.

We would all be interested to see the photo & the positioning of the number on the nearside headstock, together with the font type. It may be obvious to JH or other experienced eye what has occurred.
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